Ketan Gajjar: Good afternoon, everyone. And welcome to the Recruitment Curry show from very up new Ahmedabad, India. Today, we have our special guest, Chris Howe, a high performance coach and a senior leadership professional from the UK recruitment industry. Chris, welcome to the show.
Chris Howe: Thank you very much, Katen. Thanks for having me.
Great name, by the way. I know I’ve said it to you before, but brilliant name.
Ketan Gajjar: Thanks. Thanks, Chris. Chris, could you please, tell a bit about yourself and your journey in the industry? Yeah,
Chris Howe: Yeah. So I’ll start with just the career path I’ve taken in recruitment. So probably like a lot of people I fell into recruitment in 1999 July.
So yeah, just 24 years, they get done done typical sort of branch based work. That’s everything from blue collar drivers, permanent recruitment, some more senior level roles as the career evolved. So that was with a business called what was called the staffing group extra personnel.
Managed to fine tune and carve a way to progress my career with that business. And then was part of the team that founded and launched a business called Single Resource in 2006. That was a a managed service, high volume, blue collar business all business secured primarily through tender work.
That business grew like you wouldn’t believe in that group by the time it was sold not so long ago to another business. That was from 2006 to an exit point of around 200 million. The group actually combined, I think it was just over 400. Unbelievable growth very well run, solidly.
Led business by the the original founder of the business and his managing directors. Then I moved around and been to work more recently with a bit of a smaller business to support the growth and development of that company to the point where I’ve just come to a point now where we’re time ready for it, ready for change.
And I’ll come on to a little bit more detail in terms of the Why that changes really its head and why I’m so passionate about what the new [00:02:00] venture is. But yes, as you’ve banded me up on the on the header, your results coach limited is something I’ve done on the sideline for a period of time, coaching methodologies it’s aided me in terms of coaching and developing.
In my day job in recruitment but now it’s time to to take the next big step and actually, move into that on a full time basis. So that in short, Ketan is my plotted history full of ups and downs. Don’t get me wrong. But I guess the downs of how we appreciate the ups as well.
Ketan Gajjar: Certainly. And thanks Chris, for your, brief introduction there. So Chris, before we begin, obviously your story. You recently shared on LinkedIn about how reset your relationship with alcohol and then, your commitment to change and especially the drive to help others, is undeniably admirable.
Fantastic coming out, talking about it. And then I think that’s a good starting point for our topic, today is, building a mindset for success and, leadership and recruitment. Yeah, if you want to talk about your story and, [00:03:00] we can take it from there.
Chris Howe: We’d love to. Yeah, we’d love to. So yeah, I’ve been very this will probably come out as we talk. If there’s people watching this this video now, or when it’s recorded, those that have worked with me will know that I’m, I want to be an authentic, transparent, honest individual that’s with customers and that’s what people in teams, that’s really important to me and my values say that I just want to be a good.
A good person, unfortunately the recruitment industry, it can be tarnished with a bad reputation. I was with a, I was with an old customer. This is C suite level person last week. And his words were that he sees agency and I’m talking to you about blue collar is maybe a disrespected sector and it really hit home.
I think in Crikey, that’s. That’s quite disappointing. And I think that a lot of why he sees it being disrespected is driven by a lot of the behaviors that happen within that sector. [00:04:00] But I want to talk a little bit about it. So you’ve led me into my own my own story and I’m quite happy to share as much detail as I need to.
So what it does, Link to leadership quite considerably. So I mentioned before I developed my career and I’m very grateful for the career that I developed in the staffing group and for the owner, the owners of that business very grateful. They gave me numerous opportunities to, to develop and grow, which is brilliant.
But during around 2008 recruitment is a, it’s a bit of a party in industry, I think, to be honest, certainly in the uk and the more and more I speak to people in the US as well. Same scenario. Client entertainment is surrounded by drink, you celebrate a business win and a new contract win with a few beers on a Friday after work or whatever it may be.
You’ll go to the pub and you’ll go for a curry kettle and I know we spoke about that, that’s quite typical in England and I was in that trap I was drinking [00:05:00] regularly, now this isn’t, I’m not, I wasn’t somebody that was drinking a bottle of wine first thing in the morning on a bench in the street, but I was drinking regularly, it would be a glass of wine with a missus or two.
Beers Friday, Saturday, Sunday afternoon with a Sunday roast, which is obviously, my go to meal in the UK for for a Sunday would be a coffee by wine and a couple of beers or something like that. What then happened is I could see some real behavioral changes in myself. And actually, and I’ll say this to anybody watching if you’re in this place, the bravest thing you can do is actually make that acknowledgements that you are in a place where, do you know what, I’m leaning too heavily on alcohol to numb the stress, to numb the pain.
I’ve had a busy day, and all those sorts of things. And I knew something needed to change and I’ll explain the behaviors that would have been seen in, in, in my day to day activity. My stress levels were through the roof alongside [00:06:00] anxiety, but it was like the stress and anxiety would never ever go away.
There would be a constant level of stress and anxiety. And the science tells me now. That’s what your body does because if you’re drinking, even if you’re binging at the weekend and not drinking in the week, your body will still release a stress hormone that makes you feel stressed for no other reason than it’s releasing the hormone.
My interaction with my superiors I would say often wasn’t the best. In fact, I actually spoke to my old MD still to stay in touch and we were talking about a month ago and he used the phrase, it was like I had a chip on my shoulder. So you understand that, you’re antagonistic you’re defensive, you take things personally, that sort of thing.
That sort of wasn’t me. That wasn’t the, that wasn’t the Chris Howe that had really dug deep and grafted to develop his career in the early stages of his career. I also noticed it with how I was interacting with clients, again, defensive and often antagonistic. [00:07:00] Now, of course, when you’re in that place and you’re in that state, your own behaviors will generally reciprocate the behaviors coming back at you.
So guess what? Defensive Chris got a barrage of emails, quite quite, I would say bordering rude emails, but only off the back of the fact that my own behaviors just were not in a great place. I would, I did a lot of driving, a lot of driving, you could be in the car five, six hours a day and there was constant stress in the car.
I would be nervous going into client meetings. crikey, the hairs would be standing up on my head, and I just wasn’t functioning anywhere near like I should have done. And I got by, I got by straight through. Externally to myself, I don’t think that people may be registered and acknowledge that [00:08:00] actually our wounds are in the best of places.
And I then chose one of my posts on LinkedIn, I just hit the red button and said, this is it. I’ve got to do something about this because my career is highly likely to become stagnant if I continue. The final part was so as a leader, as someone that was managing a broad team of people across the country, the engagement I had with those people wasn’t as it needed to be.
Meetings may be rushed, one to one’s accelerated objectives and focuses and development plans were rushed and maybe not as thoughtful as they should have been. And I didn’t feel that I was really being present enough for the team who were that long. Thought I was bloody great, but didn’t realise inside, I was having a lot of challenges.
Hit the Red Bull and best decision I ever made and I stand by it now. One of the bravest decisions I’ve ever made and I’m so proud that I’ve done it. Like I say don’t [00:09:00] perceive me to be a raving alcoholic. I like to party, that, that’s fact. And the recruitment industry likes to party.
It just generally sends it around drink. So that’s the background for you, Ketan, in terms of where I was at.
Ketan Gajjar: That’s a great obviously, like I said, commitment and, changing your situation. And there’s a lot that goes in because, one is self awareness and then two is, you spend time making sure that you literally tick every box that’s required.
And then that is hard work. And it needs discipline, and that sort of brings us to, our first question of, what elements, or what factors in your opinion, drive driving leadership, especially in the recruitment sector, because, you’ve been doing this 24 years the industry and then, yeah, so if you want to share, start us.
Chris Howe: Okay yeah. So I’ll always start, and I’ve used this word already, is, and I believe in this, is authenticity. Authenticity. I was I was in conversation with somebody. It’s probably going back two or three weeks. And the phrase was you. [00:10:00] Covering and what we can see this isn’t just recruitment, but we’re talking about recruitment.
So what you can see is that people and leaders even they come to work and they put a different mask on they put a different they just almost, the family man. And the good friend that’s come back in on a Monday from the weekend puts a mask on and says, I’ve got to, I need to be the boss now, I need to lead these people.
And I just think it’s all wrong. And the terminology was called covering. And there’s a lot of that happens in the industry. And I can’t express this enough. That authenticity, transparency, and just honesty. It will carry so much weight because the reciprocal behavior that we get is all those three things plus respect.
Once we’re in a place with staff, team, people, peers, don’t forget your peers, because there’s a, it’s what leadership’s wider than just you and [00:11:00] the people in your team. Authenticity is the key thing for me, for sure. But I think to take that a step further and, I’ve been engaging a hell of a lot on LinkedIn and a variety of different topics over the last couple of weeks.
And this one’s raised its head quite a bit around toxic environments. And. My view is really simple. And think about what I’ve said about me and think about the place I got myself in is also self care. Now it’s quite broad that and can be overused, but what, in short, what I’m saying is As a leader, responsible for the welfare and performance of the team, you need to be taken to work as the best version of yourself.
And that best version of yourself will then portray the values, the traits, the beliefs. that will aid you in then leading a team successfully. [00:12:00] You’re not going to be turning up all used to the alcohol, hungover, high levels of stress, lethargic, not really motivated to do a great deal. You need to as I need to as a coach, turn up to work as the best version of yourself.
Now, self care can be all sorts. That’s drinking, getting, it can be all sorts. There’s a ratio to your body make up and your weight, but get three litres of water down your neck. Build a solid a. m. morning routine that sets you up properly for your day. Things like practicing gratitude and journaling and writing things down and goal setting.
There’s all sorts of things that you can do. to make sure that you turn up to work the best, I use that, the best version of yourself. Then from that point guess what, you’ve got the right foundation and building blocks to then lead successfully. That’s where I we can drift off into all sorts of places here at Catamaran.
But yeah, that would always be my first go to when it comes to being a successful. Yeah, [00:13:00]
Ketan Gajjar: sure. So you obviously being transparent is and then authentic is where you would start, isn’t it? And you linked in well in terms of The behavioral patterns off, starting your day on a positive note, journaling and the other things.
But, when you’re trying to develop a mindset of success or, which leads to developing a thriving leadership, you’re going to come across obstacles. How did you turn those obstacles and, you’ve got a wonderful story of, turning those obstacles into, opportunities and then, achievements and then obviously as a growth strategy.
If you want to share some, highlights on this point.
Chris Howe: Yeah, of course. Yeah. Yeah. And it linked into what I’d already said, I’ll be honest challenges and obstacles. I didn’t deal with them very well. I guess I’m 2008, 2007, I didn’t, I got through them cause I will, cause I’ve got a lot of experience to pull on and I’ve got a great team.
So I’ll get through them, but I didn’t enjoy that process. And this is one of the things in my early career, when you get an obstacle thrown at you or a [00:14:00] challenge, it’s almost right now I can prove my worth to my customer and my team. I almost embrace an issue because in recruitment, whichever sector you’re in, You are going to be let down by people because that is our, that’s our commodity for want of a better word.
And I always believe that the best way for you to demonstrate your service isn’t when it’s going great. It’s when those challenges arise. Now another, and I’m really passionate about this because this is something that I’ve used on my own. Life to really transform the way I think is adopting a growth mindset, which is really important.
There’s lots of strategies and activities you can do to help with this. The book by Carol Dweck as part of a coaching sort of program I was on without, I employed a coach myself. So which is why, I believe in what I’m doing because I’ve done it myself and it works. I’ve got two coaches at the moment that I’m working with on other [00:15:00] things.
But they are the gross mind mindset. gets you in a place where it’s not a fixed mindset where you have, you limit beliefs, you limit your ability to progress and handle challenges and deal with issues. You actually appreciate learning some of the most valuable learning that you will ever get is by failure and by making mistakes.
I used to hate it. I was a perfectionist. I procrastinated, I planned, I was, that’s just how it was built and I had to scrap all that and think like we spoke about at the start of, before the start of the show, I’ve turned up today and I’m just going to talk about whatever we talk about, the old Chris would have been scribbling notes, and everything else.
I’m just thinking, and I don’t think you get the authentic person. So a growth mindset’s massive and it’s about accepting that you might not get everything right. That’s as a leader, and that is as a team. So it’s really important to foster an environment that people understand. If you come up with an idea that maybe isn’t quite right, that’s [00:16:00] absolutely fine because no idea is a bad idea.
But that one idea that isn’t quite right is highly likely to start stimulating thought through other people in the team, where then all of a sudden the magic happens and you create the right solution. So that’s really important is, so you’ve got to do the work on yourself as a leader to get to the point that you adopt a growth mindset yourself and accept and be adaptable to change.
That’s it’s healthy. It’s healthy. On occasion, the status quo is good. Being adaptable and fit for change is brilliant, particularly as we’re going through a lot of challenges across the sector and economically at the moment, there’ll be a need to change. And I’m making sure that’s.
instilled into the team as well. And I think if you can develop that type of culture, that for me is a winning formula, a real winning formula. Egos are left at the door, everyone on the same page, everyone working together. Forget the backstabbing. Forget getting the [00:17:00] elbows out and trying to outdo each other, just come together as a team, and guess what?
If you adopt that sort of approach, that will get noticed by leaders, because you will be seen as the person that’s contributing, you will be seen as the person that’s adding value, you won’t be seen as the antagonist, and therefore you move things forward. So that’s gone around a little bit there.
So is that to answer your question?
Ketan Gajjar: Yeah, sure. Sure. And then, you highlighted about the growth mindset and then one of the factors that, that has been highlighted a number of times is your urge to learn and develop and then you, because we’re talking about the obstacles, there’s interesting book that, that sort of is my bedside, Bible that I refer to the obstacles, the way by Ryan Halliday.
It’s an amazing book. Anybody who wants to get over obstacles and, use them as opportunities is, they should refer to it, highly recommended. And then two is you mentioned about adapting to the change. Now, recruiting is dynamic.
We come across changes probably a hundred times a day, changes in client requirements, changes in candidate requirements. So [00:18:00] embracing That the reality, the sooner we do it, the sooner we put our, obviously habit and discipline in terms of embracing the reality that the better for us.
And then you’re obviously developing a mindset of success rather than, yes, healthy competition is great. But then. You want to make sure that we all come together like you mentioned, and then the biggest obstacles is not looking at the reality as it is, and then thinking about it every time there’s a change.
Chris Howe: Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, absolutely. And I think there’s an element of resilience in there as well. You’re right. You, you A day in recruitment is often never the same, and you’ll get all sorts of curveballs and grenades thrown your way through a day. And it’s about a little bit of resilience.
You use one of my favorite words around discipline. Often, a challenge arises and it’s I could really do without having to deal with this now, but the discipline says It’s an essential task. It needs to be done. Yeah, particularly if it’s a climate related [00:19:00] thing. And I think that yeah, discipline is really important, but being resilient, and approaching a challenge with a headspace to say, we will get it sorted.
There is a solution to everything. It might not be in your head. It might be in somebody else’s head in the team or, but there is a solution. To everything. So I think if we approach it, if we approach challenges and obstacles in that way, what we’ve got to do now is, okay, let’s find a solution, simple as that.
Easy said than done.
Ketan Gajjar: Yeah it’s, it’s not always easy, but it, it’s always doable, as long as you’re ready to act. And then, everything is top down majority of the times that, if you react in a certain way, that’s how you’d expect responses from your senior leadership.
And then obviously the others on the team to come back to you and then, taking care of your customers. Important point there. So what are the, some of the most actionable techniques that you used? In your career and again in recent times and obviously to overcome obstacles, [00:20:00] developing, obviously a time leadership for your teams.
Chris Howe: So if we still talk about obstacles so I would use an example. An obstacle for me would I’ll go to, I’ve got a few buzzwords in my brain. Okay. An obstacle or a challenge. I’m going to, I’m going to relay this to to mindset again. So I was in a business and one of the individuals very dominant personality, very dynamic, like a brain, like a pinball machine or almost but sometimes maybe just needed to take a few breaths before diving straight into a very task focused.
And we had a situation where that approach within a week. We lost three people that were all quite important to a specific contract and customer. One was middle management and two were based on the client’s location. Now, the easiest thing to do is just, lose your temper, get angry and, it’s what the bloody hell have you done?
Yeah. But it doesn’t serve the purpose, doesn’t get us anywhere. So first things first, we’ve got [00:21:00] an issue, we’ve got to deal with it. That then meant manipulating people, getting some project cover to the site, reallocating responsibilities within the senior management team. That was all a relatively quick fix with some external recruitment to replace one of the roles on the site.
It did cause challenges to service. We lost market share versus another provider. So therefore there was financial damage to everything that went on. And that was all about, there was myself, a senior, a project senior, and then two project officers, so to speak, that would support that challenge.
It didn’t take us too long to at least put a plaster on the problem. It just took us a little bit of time to then build a proper solution back up again with those people. But what, beyond that, what’s really important is that then an individual then learns from those type of mistakes. So I went through a process of looking at, I [00:22:00] did a lot of personality profiling with the senior team and we did a bit of a workshop and a way day so we could get everyone together so everyone could start to learn and understand a little bit more about each other and how their natural behaviours change.
would maybe rub somebody else in the wrong way, but actually could be a really complimentary way of communicating to somebody else. So as an obstacle that did give me quite a few headaches because it was quite a, it was a, an exodus of three key people at once. It didn’t happen again.
And I know the individual definitely would have learned from that situation. But what I’m trying to express is that I didn’t lose my temper. I was frustrated. Don’t get me wrong. But all I thought to myself is how can we now use this situation for the better of that individual who is a brilliant operator brilliant person.
So hopefully that sort of answers the question, the way you’re trying to take it.
Ketan Gajjar: Certainly, and I’m, having a sort of good head on your [00:23:00] shoulder, especially in situations where, the crisis, how you handle the crisis is more important. And, that’s what you demonstrate to your sort of subordinates and your team members.
You want to. Make the most of the crisis and then, turn them around. And which is what you did, likely, the example that you shared and that links us into sort of the question of, how do you develop a winning culture, especially in a recruitment business, which is, very competitive, very sales revenue driven.
Chris Howe: This, crikey, you can so first and foremost I’ve always spoken about the leadership and I’ve always spoken about the way that people need to be turning up to work and that needs to be encouraged. So if we just labor on that for the for a moment and I see a lot of wellbeing and mental health training that’s been done in businesses I was on the receiving end of just so I can understand the contents for a global business only a couple of weeks ago.
But then what I see in practice is not necessarily following through on that because [00:24:00] my opinion is if we’ve got mindset we’ve got the Workload right, i. e. right skills to the right person, right jobs to the right person, and the right amount of work to the right person. So we can make sure that they are, they’re in a great headspace, they’re not overworked, they’re not overwhelmed, they’re not burnt out.
That’s the first place I’m going to go, and that’s because the new venture says that is always going to be my starting point. The other part, if you think about how I’ve had successful teams in the past, within recruitment is, I’ve already said, you turn up authentic, you’re honest, you’re open, you’re respectful.
But I think it’s making sure that those team members feel that they’re not just part of a business, but they are part times of the direction and decision making within that business. Ultimately, there will always be decisions made at board level that sit at board level. That’s done, and people on this call [00:25:00] understand that.
But I just think it’s making sure that we enable and empower individuals to feel actually I’m making a difference here. And I think I’ve got quite a list of things going on there. And there’s probably a quite a long timeline to get all that done, to be honest. But then when we’ve got to a point in a good space, mindset sorted.
Got the growth mindset. Doesn’t care if they make the odd mistake. It’s fine, I’m going to learn from it. Has the right job. Has the right role attached to them. Can afford a fucking break. This industry, burns people out. We expect people to be in an office 7 till 6 still, and then on call out of hours in some sectors.
Which I did when I was young, but I came back a long time now. So I think if we put all the things I’ve spoken about together by default, we are in a position now where you’re able to deliver and generate a winning culture. Of course, a lot of people in this industry are here because you can earn good money in the recruitment sector.
Of course, you’ve got to [00:26:00] get your remuneration right. Of course, you’ve got to benchmark against the industry and make sure that, A, you’re not losing good people and B, you can, you’re able to attract more as your business grows. Yes, you can do your away days, your fun days and your team building days.
They’re always good fun. I think one of the big things, and this is a bit of work. This is part of the the solution for your results. Coach is also getting senior teams together. And actually creating workshops that help them to interact with each other, bounce ideas off each other, create ideas and just basically form a really rock solid bond.
And I think once you’ve got all that list on winning cultures there, for me.
Ketan Gajjar: Certainly and I, it’s a step by step process. And, one of my questions I wanted to I wanted to ask you is, you’ve been doing this 24 years and you mentioned that you made some mistakes as well on the way.
So what are some great resources that have helped you, in your journey, in the last 24 years?
Chris Howe: So I have worked with, I’ve worked with [00:27:00] excellent owners of businesses. And I’ve learnt a lot. It’s not always been perfect, I’m not going to lie, but as a rule. It’s been a positive experience.
I’ve had the benefit of the use of a mentor. That was probably for about 12 months. That was great because that was actually someone that was helping me to develop the strategic thinking around corporate strategy, what direction you’re going in, and basically putting that in an organized format so it was clear for everyone to understand.
And the last point is I use a coach, I’ve invested tens of thousands of pounds in coaches. I use two coaches right now. One is probably one of the most prominent figures in the alcohol free movement, a guy called Andy Rammage and he’s supporting me in terms of further education. And I’m really starting to dig in even more detail around positive psychology.
And another Adam Smith, he is supporting me with the infrastructure in the business as I take it forward, essentially. And I’ve learned, it’s unbelievable. Yes, it’s cost [00:28:00] me some money. And yes, it’s an investment. What a brilliant investment it’s been. And the pace of learning when you work with people like this, it does that, it can do that because you can dictate as a client, I want to be learning like this.
I’m a little bit now go. I want to be learning like that. So absolutely.
Ketan Gajjar: Go on. Sorry. Yeah. Sorry. You can have as many coaches and as many tools as you want, if you aren’t going to act on it. It’s not going to work, isn’t it?
Chris Howe: No, this is, so there’s loads of little phrases.
I’ll actually keep in my head and use, and I use this for myself is there is, there are times for the thinking cap. Yeah. So I gave you the example of the individual that was very task focused and that’s do a lot of work. Cause I’m I’m a lot more passive and calm in, in day to day work.
And I want people to see you like that because it’s important that, you’re not stressing up. Cool.
With that individual, it was about making sure that we just took a little bit of [00:29:00] time, stop, let’s just think for one minute, before you make that phone call, before you send that email, let’s just take five minutes just to think and reflect. And often within that window, I would stretch it by the way because I’m running out, I’d stretch it further than that once we’ve got the five minutes done.
There may be a few little different things we might need to say, do, email, whatever it’s going to be. So that’s the, so that’s the first thing in terms of I’ll link that back to when you talked about the crisis, but so there’s your thinking cap. But actually there comes a point, and I’ve worked with other people that are so flipping on it, it’s untrue, much more on it than I am, because I will sit and think and pause for thought.
Before the action hat goes on. So there is absolutely time for the thinking cap, but sometimes there is 100% the need. You get your action hat on, put some urgency into what you’re doing and go and, go and react . Yeah,
Ketan Gajjar: [00:30:00] absolutely. Yeah, absolutely. And then just as a parting question, what is one myth, obviously you wanna bust about the recruitment industry?
What’s ask again? , please. What is one myth. Obviously you’d like to bust about the recruitment industry that, you’ve been doing this 24 years and I’m sure, there are lots of myths. What is that one thing that you want to talk about, in terms of it’s a myth about the industry and A myth.
A myth.
Chris Howe: A
Ketan Gajjar: myth
Chris Howe: in the industry. I’ll tell you what I’d say. I’ll tell you what I’d say. And I want to I’m passionate about the industry. I think that for, because of a minority, I think sometimes the industry can get a bad name and a bad name and a bad reputation. Now I’ve spoken a little bit about challenges, issues, touched on toxic environment.
I’m not going to go into that now, but there’s some flipping brilliant people in recruitment, some amazing individuals. that are just, the best people you could ever possibly cross paths with. So for anyone watching that’s not in recruitment and doesn’t have an opinion of the industry, do you know what?[00:31:00]
Everyone works their socks off as a rule. Typically, people will be honest and straight with you. I would ask as part of this podcast, those that sort of say yes to everything and then fail to deliver, stop doing it now. And this is a mantra from an old customer of mine. 15 years, just do what you say you’re going to do.
So for people outside of the industry, it’s a very hard working sector. It’s a very rewarding sector for anyone that might be considering getting into the sector, by the way, that’s really important, very rewarding. And my career is testament to that really. But yeah, just for that minority guys just get, let’s not over commit and let’s just make sure that whatever we’re going to.
say we’re going to do for a customer we over deliver. One last thing on this. I saw a, I interacted on a, with a LinkedIn actually. It was awful. He’d he just had a bad experience where he was looking for work, changing jobs and he had a phone call and the phone call was, how [00:32:00] can we help? And then it flipped into a sales call.
And I just don’t think he, I think he had a 2 million. Impressions and lights on the post. And it just said to me, it feels sometimes like the industry may get itself a bad rep for the wrong reason and for a minority of people. It’s not about industry, it’s a blooming great industry, and everyone works the industry as well.
That’s what I’d like to say, Ketan. How’s that? And I can’t hear you,
Ketan, by the way. Can you hear me?
Ketan Gajjar: Sorry. It certainly is a great industry. I think it’s the third largest industry globally, after the US and Japan. Definitely, everybody works really hard. Definitely rewarding, but not easy. So yeah, no agree
Chris Howe: with .
Ketan Gajjar: Yeah, definitely not easy.
Chris Howe: Definitely not easy. Not at all. Not at all.
Ketan Gajjar: Certainly. So Chris, thank you so much for sharing your insights. And I obviously being the guest on the recruitment curry. I hope you enjoy the [00:33:00] curry this weekend.
Chris Howe: Yes, I may, you may have influenced me to go and grab myself one kettle. So I’ll probably do that.
But no, listen, I appreciate you having me on. And I’m glad I’ve been able to share the story that I shared, albeit there’s a lot more to it than what I’ve managed to share in the time we’ve got. And if anyone on the call, any of your colleagues are in a similar place or want to look at support.
From a coach, then please reach out via LinkedIn, I’ll be more than happy to have some conversations. So there you
Ketan Gajjar: go.
Chris Howe: Awesome.
Ketan Gajjar: Awesome. Thanks once again, Chris. And yeah, you have a fantastic day. Take care. All right. Thanks. Thanks for your time. Cheers guys. Cheers.
