Ketan Gajjar: Hello everybody and welcome to the Recruitment Curry Show. Today we’re going to be talking about the most exciting topic that both Mac and I, we’ve been waiting for almost two years now to tell our story, The Founders Speak. Obviously as a, new entrepreneur you go through the life of building a business from scratch.
And we thought it best to, share our journey with aspiring entrepreneurs. entrepreneurs and entrepreneurs in the outsourcing industry. So I brought my co founder, friend, colleague, and operations director of RPO Arena, Mac, aka Manish Narang, on the Recruitment Curry Show. Mac, over to you.
A brief introduction will be of help.
Manish Narang: Thanks, Ketan. Good afternoon, everyone. So I’ve been associated with the outsourcing and recruitment industry for about two decades now. Our core expertise is lifting and shifting of lifting, shifting and transitioning of various processes and various sectors, whether it’s IT, healthcare non IT, everything.
I have developed transitions and developed teams across various functions and sectors, as I mentioned earlier. So this is a short brief about me and in RPO, just want to we want to share, our journey of how we have reached here.
Ketan Gajjar: So thanks Mac for that.
And I think you’ve been too humble in terms of sharing your expertise. So Mac obviously has been one of the pioneers when it comes to the outsourcing and recruitment. And then I think over two decades working hands on and then very few people probably know this, but, he’s worked on probably every aspect of the recruiting life cycle, from inputting jobs to, Booking and shifts compliance out of hours. And then obviously to into non healthcare space as well. And, lifting and shifting processes of project size, over a hundred and then, managing training, developing lots of recruiting functions, for companies who wanted to offshore and then successfully, transition those projects and, organically grew, grew those projects as well.
So I think you, We can have a separate episode for, talking about your experience, but that’s for some of the time, Mac.
Manish Narang: So
Ketan Gajjar: It’s been an interesting journey last two years. Isn’t it, Mac?
Manish Narang: Oh, yeah. It has been a fantastic journey. I would say a lot of it’s not easy to become an entrepreneur and, we have learned a lot. And we’ve gained a lot of experience, in this journey. , people say that, you can develop a business, you can build something, but maybe it’s take, it takes a lot of sweat and energy on, you have to put in, as you said, you have to be hands on, you have to have that experience, you have to be working hands on to actually, build it to a certain extent.
Ketan Gajjar: Exactly. And, I’m sure, a lot of people actually in the Ahmedabad market where we are and then where we are now and then, others as well would be keen to know that how did we get here in terms of starting RPO arena and that too, Ketan Gajjar and Manish Narang despite having worked together for a long time in our previous life, It was interesting, isn’t it, Mac?
Bumping into each other into a business where we were both consulting for a short duration back, a bit before the pandemic.
Manish Narang: Just before the pandemic hit, I think it was just a month ago, I think that or a month or a half that we, we met. At this place where you were consulting, you’re right.
And and yeah, and the pandemic hit and there we were, just clueless thinking what to do and thought of developing, something of our own. We have done a lot, developing big offshore industries before. So it was time for, to do something for ourselves and develop something of our own.
Ketan Gajjar: Exactly. I still remember, one of those conversations, around the 15th or 20th of March, I don’t remember the date exactly, but this was the first announcement of the lockdown. And we were having chai downstairs and we, we discussed that, what, Ketan, you know what Manish, I don’t think this is going to work.
And then we have to think something, which is why, obviously entrepreneurship was an accident for us, isn’t it? Yeah.
Manish Narang: It was. Yeah, you’re right.
Ketan Gajjar: And then, and then we, obviously we met probably once before that and, and then probably briefly over the calls, we discussed that it’s time to start.
So we, it was more of a beta testing initially, working together before we actually Launched full fledged and actually registered at the arena later in the, in, in 2020 so it was interesting but one of the conversations, and then how we got here was that, if you look at Amitabh Mac, and correct me if I’m wrong, there are what two of the largest, and then, almost 25, 30 small to medium sized RPOs.
So
Manish Narang: Yeah, probably right. Yeah. Yeah.
Ketan Gajjar: Yeah. And we were thinking that how do we is there an opportunity in the market?
Manish Narang: So yeah, that’s where the answer was that, that we there are plenty of opportunities. Every business has an opportunity, but the thing that stands apart or that, that the difference that we used to, we carry is the is our experience, right?
And our proven experience of the quality that we can provide. To, to our clients or to, to our customers itself.
Ketan Gajjar: Exactly. And, obviously both are experience combined of over, almost a couple of decades both front end and back end. And at that point in time obviously the world was shut and we said, You know what, there’s no getting away from this.
So why not give it a shot? And obviously when you’re at zero and rock bottom, the only way is up.
Manish Narang: Yeah.
Ketan Gajjar: So
Manish Narang: the point is you don’t have, you haven’t got anything to lose, right? So it’s if you don’t do something, you’re losing anyways, right? So why not do something and probably you and do something and not do something, but rather do what you’re, what you are what you’ve done and what you have proven skills.
Why don’t you do that? And, as you said, lift it up or go up.
Ketan Gajjar: Exactly. So that’s how we started. And, people were still amazed when both Mac and I came together. To start the business that how can these two guys, come together or, what happened again it was a talk of the town locally in, in this region fast forward, obviously deciding to start was the easy bit that yes, we’ll go.
Up your arena and then we’ll start. And but it was the darkest days, it was actually after we started reaching out to people and, from April, May onwards. When the world was shut, isn’t it, Matt?
Manish Narang: Yes, it was completely shut.
Ketan Gajjar: And that’s where, obviously the next point that how did we deal with the demons?
And then how did we carry on? Matt, what was the schedule at that point in time? Do you remember our discussions?
Manish Narang: I very well remember, so obviously the, it was completely shut down, dumbed down, rather, and we didn’t have any, We obviously weren’t meeting face to face.
So the only communication was like, on phones and on, on like this, on screens, but I still remember we used to have literally a morning call that probably an afternoon call probably a nap in between. And then again, catch up in the evening, summarizing as to, What clients have, like the clients that we tried, whether we have the responses, I still remember, where, we used to be like, we are not getting any responses from clients and stuff, but the one thing that has kept us, always going and which is common between us is, our passion and patience that we’ve always done the belief that, we can do something right.
That’s exactly what we have. Hold on to or held on to. And, we have, we’ve come to come up to the stage.
Ketan Gajjar: Totally. Totally. And in fact I still remember the conversations, on, on my morning walks and, evening walks as well, that whenever we were permitted, during the lockdown that, okay, fine, you can do.
And then the calls were like, what will happen, man? I, I reached out to like. 100 leads, I’ve sent emails, made cold calls because as much as experience you can have and then, when you start from scratch you’re still a new entity, irrespective of who you worked for in the past and funnily, at that point in time as the clients or the contacts that we had, we’re already working with the providers and as much as they wanted to work with us they, they were either committed into long term contracts or.
They just didn’t have enough volume to outsource which was the most difficult times and you’re like, you mentioned, I think the most common traits that we have are one is our passion for both outsourcing and recruitment and to do something. Something worthwhile with our time and the skill set.
And then, and obviously the patients in terms of getting on as much time as it takes. And then obviously belief in ourselves, but over and above these things, I think, the demons were that, what are we really doing? At the end of the day, when we used to call and, there were times when we used to have late night calls, probably even at 12 and one I don’t know.
Talking about because, you still have that self doubt we’d be covering up if we said that, okay, as much as belief we had given those times that, what’s going to happen next.
Manish Narang: Yes, it’s a given that is human and that is supposed to happen, first of all, let’s not forget, we started in the pandemic in the midst of the pandemic, right?
We were literally, there, there were everything was shut down, where obviously, it was difficult to, tap anybody or to approach. During that period as you said, that was the darkest days, what goes down, it has to come up. It does come up.
And that is the belief that we had. And we always believed in. And I think the effort that we put in during that period the three, four, six months that we put in especially on the BD side of things, approaching candidates or the clients and all that stuff that eventually started paying off as soon as the, restrictions were taken off.
And when the world actually started moving back to not, I wouldn’t say normalcy, but yeah, it just started moving to, towards normalcy. Exactly.
Ketan Gajjar: Exactly. And I think the critical thing that we continue doing was that we, we kept going, we, we were literally that, okay, fine.
This, the wheel will turn. And as soon as. The market opens up the, there will be demand and somebody like us who’s been there done that obviously for somebody else, we knew the pains of actually in outsourcing and then, pains of people as well. And I think one of the biggest value add that both of us had, and a lot of people probably might discount this or might not consider that, this is there, but.
It’s the support of our families during those times, probably that 12 months, those 12 months. What do you think?
Manish Narang: I completely agree. There was a lot of support from the family. Let’s not forget, even when shut down, we still had our expenses, we still had our normal routine life that was continuing.
But the support, the family support that we got was immense. They were always behind us, supporting us. They believed in us at the end of the day. And that is the most important thing. Bit that is required a family support, so yeah we were lucky and the second is belief in ourselves.
It was also there But I think the family believe or the family support is the most important thing, which we were blessed with. And another, we are blessed with and and which has made it more strong.
Ketan Gajjar: Exactly. Exactly. So far, in terms of this point, number two the biggest takeaway, yes, you will have you will have those demons to fight with when you’re starting something from scratch, unless you got a godfather who’s going to help you, getting business and then, helping you with.
Probably every bits and bobs in setting up the business which obviously it’s not that it doesn’t happen, but then. If you’re going to start like us you are going to have, come across those challenges. You will have those sleepless nights. And then you will at times doubt yourself and also think that, what am I going to do?
But the key is that, okay, you must have that belief that yes, one is I’m going to do this and two is, be patient enough to make sure that, you grow through these times. And then don’t give up because it’s tough. And especially if you’re starting on your own, it obviously becomes tougher.
For us, we had, literally each other apart from our families to talk about things and we are very different personalities. So that really helps with, exchange of views. Sharing ideas, opinions, and then we were also lucky to have, some really helpful mentors and then soundboards as well at that point in time who did offer to help in every way possible at that time.
So yeah, be prepared to fight those demons. You need your own support system. You need your own traits to develop, but yeah, patience and, belief is crucial, to make anything work.
Manish Narang: Absolutely. I completely agree.
Ketan Gajjar: So bringing on to the core topic is obviously the core, the two core.
challenges that we faced and probably every entrepreneur, irrespective of the industry faces, comes across when building something from scratch do you want to address the challenge number one, Mac?
Manish Narang: So the biggest challenge was getting clients. To start with, because as far as, if you don’t have something to start, you cannot, you don’t have to start.
You don’t have something to start. You can’t start. It’s like that, right? So for an outsourcing model, you need a client, right? To start with. And that was obviously the most difficult part and the the effort that was put in. Before another four, six months effort that was put in that had to pay off.
And it was the client that we needed to give us a kickstart.
Ketan Gajjar: Exactly. And I, I think, and then even the bigger challenge from my perspective, irrespective of my, contacts and background and everything, the world was shut and, getting business in those times was difficult.
I still remember. Developing those prospects and, taking one of those calls when the lockdown was released was it in my small car under the tree because we didn’t have an office or a place to go to, to call together and, by scorn, we, we literally took the call from there.
So yes, I totally agree. The biggest challenge is getting clients. But we had a bigger challenge to actually surmount at that point in time. And the much bigger challenge was, yes, you can get clients but you’re an outsourcing business and it’s an end recruitment and it’s a people business.
So the second biggest challenge was getting people to work for, obviously for those clients and then, work with us. And I think Mac, you must highlight what channels you utilized and obviously what questions were you asked as well at that point in time.
Manish Narang: So as I mentioned earlier, I have been in the recruitment industry for almost two decades, have, worked with a lot of clients, have a, I had a good network or other have a good network of staff who have been, I’ve worked with in the past and, I’ve been in connect with.
And it was time for us to start utilizing that network and the connections. Yeah, it was difficult to get somebody on board. It’s difficult for somebody to even come in to start working with, just because they know me, they know Mac, but that, that, that doesn’t work, but it is the, it is more of.
They could, they didn’t. They knew the, the they had the, they also had the belief that these guys have the capability and to grow this further and they want to scale this. Our intention was never put putting up a boutique. We already, we always had plans to, develop something greater, bigger and greater.
So the network that, you know I had, they had faith in us and they wanted to, and they, it took time, for them to, to come and join, the faith and the belief of growing with us was also there. Yeah. And that’s what helped us to build this, to to get. Get get the first movement or rather [00:16:00] the movement.
Ketan Gajjar: Totally. But, let’s not forget as well, that as much as a lot of people knew us and I knew, especially you from the office perspective in the market when you’re starting out new and as a first time entrepreneur. People will always have those questions that yes, Mac, yes, Kate, and we know you, we’ve worked with, you in the past on your team, but that was for a different business, which was already established.
What is your track record? What’s your track record in actually developing a new business from the scratch? That’s one two is, what’s your track record of actually paying people on time, because people work to get paid on time. Okay. And given the instances in the outsourcing industry, we’ve seen over the past two decades, how many companies, have launched and, gone bust even in six months time.
And then people always have this concern because they’ve got families to feed. So yes there was a great network, people have those questions that, am I going to get paid on time? What is my career trajectory? How big are you going to get in next three months, six months, 12 months time, are you going to remain a 10 FTE business?
So there were so many questions that [00:17:00] were asked and okay, fine. You’re saying, okay, you will pay me, best salary in the market, but then how long will you keep paying? That amount, because I don’t know, if your client is going to stick around or no. And I think that’s where the recruitment process outsourcing market, but also has a sort of A downside, if I were to say that it’s not entirely sticky, if you look at accounting outsourcing or payroll, it’s still a sticky market, but recruiting, even if there’s a slight downside or movement in the international markets, it’s directly impacted and then, so is our business.
Yeah.
Manish Narang: So I don’t think it’s only the. international market, but in fact, there’s a lot of effort that goes in, keeping the day to day operations intact. So I think it’s a combination of a lot of things. That especially, RPO comes across or, RPOs in industry, they come across.
And yeah and yeah, you’re right. These were the people had these questions in mind before, before joining us. [00:18:00] But as I said, they still believe that because of the tenure and the experience that we carried and and and we could assure them, obviously we did assure them now, when we took them on board that, we will be taking care of themselves no matter what, because This is what we have done and this is what we want to do.
There was no looking back. We can’t go and do something different. Recruitment is what you’ve done for two decades. So there’s no looking back and just grow this further.
Ketan Gajjar: And I believe we are thankful to those. People who started with us, two years back and they’re still with us.
Their faith in us was like, okay, fine. We know, obviously what we’re doing. So from their perspective and they came on board joined us initially. I remember you you setting up the systems at my old apartment. And then, it was still the lockdown.
You were literally, hand delivering those pieces to those people.
Manish Narang: Yeah. I can never forget that, because that is where we all, it all started, 18th or 20th December, something when we went live with with one of the processes.
Ketan Gajjar: Exactly. [00:19:00] Exactly. And then you’re setting up the remote systems working everything right from, going to the shop, getting the PCs and then delivering them installing the softwares and all those things. And then obviously from the staff perspective as well, I think, we were both fortunate and lucky as well at that point in time that all the three, four people who started working on that project were so reliable that, We didn’t have to micromanage or, do anything.
We just had to obviously be hands on with the process and thankful to the client as well, who supported us through those times and then fast forward, obviously we are close to, almost a hundred people now in in, in a span of two years and, Almost over, close to one and a half million sterling pounds in sales.
I think it’s been a phenomenal journey, in the last two years, but if you’re a, new entrepreneur, if you’re thinking about launching your business, the two challenges that you’ll always have to address is, or the questions you must ask that, how am I going to acquire or attract my clients?
And two is, how am I going to people to work with me, irrespective of your background. It doesn’t matter, what is your current [00:20:00] title position? And if you’re employed or, how much cash you have in the bank at the end of the day, it’s your ability to focus and, attract people to work with you, both from clients and team members perspective,
Manish Narang: true, absolutely.
I completely agree. You need both clients as well as the staff. And I think majority of the staff, if you have the right staff at the right place, and if they deliver as per the expectations, then you’re one, more than half the battle. And then I think,
Ketan Gajjar: On that point, Mac this is on the agenda and as we discussed that on the delivery as well that what do you need to develop a sustainable, operating model.
So yes, outsourcing, as we all know, it’s, it has the lowest barrier to entry. As far as, launching your business is concerned, just like we did. Not for anybody else, it was the worst barrier to entry for us. We started the business from our bedrooms, during the pandemic, which worked out perfectly well, because we didn’t need an office, like a lot of the people who started the businesses.
So there was literally, any investment apart from our [00:21:00] experience and the time that we invested. But at the same time, understanding what the client is looking for and then obviously, setting up those operating models, those standard operating processes, making sure that we’ve got the right people on board, making sure that they understand what the client is looking for, irrespective of their tenure in the previous jobs.
And then, transitioning that. So there’s so much that goes into it. And I think we’ll cover that in, in, in one of the following LinkedIn lives that we do. Later this quarter, but, sustaining those clients is important. I think, I believe that’s where we, our experience came handy even on those first couple of clients.
Because, if you keep losing clients initially in your tenure, when you’re starting your business you don’t have a great headstart and what you need is the proper headstart to get you going.
Manish Narang: Absolutely. Absolutely. Without that, you can’t, the moment you fail, you start, you lose your belief, you lose your courage, right?
And that is what, keeps you going. [00:22:00] So whatever you get, you have to ensure, especially the start, you have to ensure that you put. I wouldn’t say a hundred percent. I think you have to put more than a hundred percent in it, or you have to completely get into it and ensure that, you deliver it as per, what is it, or rather over exceed the expectations.
Ketan Gajjar: Exactly. And the other thing to remember as well as, you have to be hands on you have to be ready to get your hands dirty. You cannot sit behind a desk or in a cabin and believe that, yes it’s going to work out. It doesn’t work out. Especially when you’re starting out, you have to be involved in terms of setting up everything right from, the systems to emails to actually working on the process when required, handholding the team members, talking to the clients, addressing those fires.
And then, this is the most critical part of starting out. And then obviously, growing organically that, you the service industry, you’re going to have fires. You’re going to have clients who are going to come to you with concerns, questions, and then [00:23:00] you cannot hide behind the desk.
You have to reach out to the client immediately and address their concerns.
Manish Narang: That, that, that is the most important bit. And I think, you need that it only comes with experience, right? If you don’t have that experience of how to manage clients and how to, Manage the expectations, it’s not possible.
I completely, totally agree with you on that, Ketan. It’s very important to be hands on in the process.
Ketan Gajjar: And I, you’ve done a phenomenal job out there especially, in the first couple of clients, when we started out, because we, we got the clients, but we needed a great headstart which we got.
And obviously, we grew the client as well organically, which helped us with references. And then, it was a, nice case study to present to, new prospects. So I think it’s been a great discussion and then many more to follow in the journey of how to develop new business and outsourcing, how to scale, how to, obviously grow organically, how to build your operations team, [00:24:00] processes, functions, and then lots to talk about this year.
If anybody of you obviously wants to reach out to us feel free DM, either Mac or me I’m all over LinkedIn and, all the social media. I love it. So yeah, but it’s been an amazing journey. The key takeaway here is believe in yourself. That’s number one, be patient, be persistent, know what you’re doing and then be ready to, get your hands dirty, you cannot be sitting in the cabin and then developing your business, you will have to be hands on.
So thank you very much from both Mac and me from the recruitment curry team. And looking forward to seeing you all again in the following shows.
Manish Narang: Thank you, everyone. Cheers, Ketan. Thank you.
