Ketan: Hello and welcome to the Recruitment Curry show. This is your host, Ketan Gajjar, and I’m happy to be joined today by Aydid Hassan. Aydid is the operations director at DRC Locums. Aydid, welcome to the show.
Aydid: Thank you for having me, Ketan. Really appreciate it. Pleasure.
Ketan: Fantastic. So I did, can you briefly tell us a bit about yourself and your journey in the recruitment and the healthcare, staffing space in the UK?
Aydid: Yeah. You’re making me feel old. Now I have to go back. Yeah, it’s been well over a decade now, actually. I’m on the director of DRC group. So that involves a few agencies. And I’ve actually been here well, yeah, over a decade, it’s been a great time. I’m the founder of the DRC nursing business. That was where I actually started my career with the group and then went on to, look after the doctor’s division and slowly and surely the rest of the business and have taken more of a global role.
But yeah, all of my experience actually in recruitment has only been in medical recruitment. So yeah, it’s my area of expertise is what I love is what I enjoy. I don’t think I would enjoy working in another industry as much as I enjoy this.
Ketan: Fabulous. And then from whatever I know, I understand that, you build the nursing recruitment team, DRC from scratch.
And then today’s topic is, about NHS frameworks. So do you want to, briefly talk about you, your experience working with the NHS, framework contracts?
Aydid: Yeah. The NHS have also made my career. So it’s been a fantastic client to work with. We’re all users of the NHS.
We’re all stakeholders. And I actually worked for the NHS prior to coming into the recruitment sector. I was part of the first pilot of the 1 1 1 contracts and training staff, so I was one of the people that actually would do preceptorship and training of the NHS staff when the NHS was under pressure.
So I’ve also been on the other side and then coming onto the recruitment and the medical recruitment side started you said the DRC nursing business originally off contract business for a good couple of years and. But I think the frameworks is what really create a streamlined business, what makes use and what makes a business scalable and what builds a real authentic business.
When we were operating off framework, yes, we were doing a lot of work with DNHs. But it wasn’t a sustainable business plan that you can build a business on that you can also forecast and business that you can extrapolate. That’s what, actually what the frameworks give you. But again, I think a lot of our counterparts misunderstand what the frameworks are there to do.
The frameworks are there actually to regulate us as agencies, to make sure that we are working in the right manner, working with the right candidates, with the right level of qualifications, and that everything As it should be to, break it a bit down in layman terms. And now what does that mean?
Meaning the doctors and the nurses that we put out to work as agencies have to be fully compliant. I have to have their references done. You have to have done their blood checks, make sure that the criminal record checks and all the background checks have been done. And when I was operating off framework, that is actually how I operated is as an own contract, making sure that everything is correct.
And that’s why the clients actually chose. Me and our business at DRC to do more business. And in the first five years, we had the bigger growth than any other agency in our industry period, and actually we were one of the fastest recruitment agencies in Europe. When we started our first within our first five years, and that was all down to really doing the things that maybe other partners would, or other competitors wouldn’t enjoy.
I see them as partners because at the end of the day, we’re all trying to do one thing and that is provide stuff into the NHS and we’ll use the NHS. So I’ve been to the hospital and I’ve been looked after by agency staff and we’re just in such a crisis now for, doctors, nurses, allied health professionals [00:04:00] that, every agency that is actually sending people out to work, if we all do a good job collectively, then we all make each other look good.
That’s the way that I looked at it. I’d never really been too concerned about competition and I still am not too concerned about competition and which agencies are coming off the framework, which agencies are going on the framework. My journey in order to grow DRC to the size it’s actually got to, and quicker and faster than anyone else has been a very single-minded focus of.
We are on the framework now. Let’s go out and let’s win business. Whereas actually the way that other businesses look at it sometimes, especially I’ve seen it now in the last five years, once they get onto the framework, they feel like they’ve won and that the business is here. When you get on the framework is when the hard work starts.
Ketan: Exactly. And I know that’s something we want to decode, on this show today irrespective of, healthcare, non healthcare there are agencies out there getting onto NHS framework and they must know what happens, once you get on the framework, do the jobs come to you directly, what’s the next step?
Even before that, what are the, some types of frameworks, if you can explain what types of frameworks exist?
Aydid: And so within our market, we’ve got a few, so you’ve got the Scotch Health Board framework, then you’ve got the HT, which is Health Trust Europe. You’ve got the Workforce Alliance, which actually in the past was called LPP and CPP, which have combined A couple of years back, prior to that, we had PASA, we had buying solutions.
These are actually going back 5, 10, 15, 18, 20 years. I remember when it was PASA and the buying solutions time too. So the names and how they have been structured together, it’s different, but it’s still the same. Outcome that the NHS is looking for is working with partners and agencies that are ethical, providing, the assurances and making sure that patient safety is at the core of it.
That is really what the frameworks try to do is procure all the agencies to make sure that everyone is doing the right thing.
Ketan: Of course, so there’s a lot of work that goes on to get onto the frameworks. What is the amount of work that the agency is supposed to do? Once they’re What happens next?
Aydid: There’s a lot of work. You’ve hit the nail on the head, actually, that needs to be done before getting onto the framework. If I go back now, 10 plus years, it actually seems really difficult. But to me now, it’s actually pretty straightforward. So I don’t see there’s a lot of work because it’s become second nature.
Once you know something, so you go through a tendering process. Once you’ve gone through the tendering process, tendering is, done in, stages of questions and then also your commercials. And then once you get onto the framework, just because you are on, just because you’re an agency that is on the framework doesn’t mean that you can get jobs from the NHS and you can supply into the hospitals.
There’s about 300 agencies that are on framework and that have never ever supplied to the NHS. Zero hours.
Ketan: So there’s this myth or misconception that, once you’re on the framework, the jobs start, start coming to, the next moment. And, you’re set on a gold mine.
And all you do is, just start sending across CVs of the candidates to book them into shifts. Is that correct?
Aydid: No, I couldn’t be further from the truth. And I’ve got a lot of friends who are in the medical recruitment space and actually predominantly we’re doing doctors and now I’ve actually come on to operate in the nursing environment and others that have never done the job themselves, but, and have started a business or businesses that, I’ve received calls from sometimes we are advising them as, just on their board, what to do next and how they do business.
And I could not. Tell you the amount of times that I’m on call or I’m on meetings and straight away, yeah, we’re going to have ton of business. How would you recommend that we build a business? Should we [00:08:00] go out and buy a database, et cetera, or do we, should I go out and hire and have you had any jobs now?
So I, like I said earlier, it’s a bit of a, once you’re on the framework, as I’d like to say, it’s the license to hunt. So you have to go out and actually haunt the business, bring the business in from the clients. And then once the trust, so my local hospital here in Milton Keynes, we’ve worked with them now for years, but the first time that we of agreement in place and we do business, they will send you shifts or they might send you a rota for a doctor just because you’ve agreed terms and condition just because you’re operating on the framework and that they’ve sent you a job, still doesn’t make you a partner.
You still have to send that doctor or that nurse out to work. They still have to turn up, As they should, in clean uniform, obeying by all the policies, the rules and the regulations that have been put in place, care for the patients, making sure that the patient safety is absolutely, the everything is built [00:09:00] around once that is done and you keep getting repeat business.
And you actually get onto the PSL and you’re a key supplier, then I would say, then you’ve really done the business. But just cause I’ve got onto the framework and I’ve got visibility of a few shifts or a few doctor requirements does not make me an agency that is providing on the framework.
Ketan: Sure.
So put it, to put it into perspective, getting on the framework, like you say, is you got the license to hunt. So you’re still supposed to conduct the business development exercise as you would conduct it in any way. In terms of, organizing the outreach discussing with them, who you are, where you’re based your capabilities, how we can help et cetera, et cetera.
And that’s when they start sending out the jobs to you. And that’s when you start working. So it’s still a republican exercise.
Aydid: Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. And there is advantages. I think what to understand is there are some really good advantages of being on the framework from the moment that you’re on the framework, you’re more of a trusted agency, it gives you a bit more credibility.
But yeah, when I was starting, I can give you a few examples. I won’t name names cause I don’t want to name any trust because we’ve not worked together for 10 years and they’ve actually become, they’ve become friends and people that I’ve known for years, some of them have actually retired and we still speak now from time to time there was a one particular trust, actually, even though we were on framework, we had absolutely all the licenses to trade, you just name it, everything was in place, They had no interest in doing business as much as I called.
And, I was doing business development for 18 months before we started doing business with the hospital and now we’re actually their largest supplier, so it’s taken really long time just for them to, give the trust. and give me an opportunity and believe in the team here. And once we started doing business, that is really when the work starts.
Cause obviously I’ve got a reputation as well. I still go and attend all of the meetings as much as the team has grown more than 10 X, I, I think everybody in the industry knows how many employees we’ve got now, but year in year out, I’m still, doing, almost close to 20, 000 miles just driving around, and that’s just because I absolutely love the job.
And I feel one that should be held accountable and responsible when our agency, the way I see it also, my agency is not doing the job that it should be doing for the trust. It’s got us to really good places where we majority of the clients we do business with, we’re on tier one. What that means is that all the vacancies do come out to us.
We have great visibility and, including the master vendor where, again, that was probably the most interesting thing I went in, we were pitching against some of the most experienced agencies and they were probably doing business before I even got into the industry. But yet I said, actually, do you know what?
I don’t think we want to take on this contract. And they were the ones that said, you know what, we’d love to do business with someone like yourselves. Could you come back and put a proposal together? And after we ended up putting the proposal together, they said, you know what, we’ll based on trust.
We want to do business with you. And it’s been eight years since. So it all
Ketan: comes back to the similar exercise of, reaching out to the respective contacts in the hospitals meeting them. And then that’s when, you create a proper equity in terms of the relationship. to build a sustainable sort of, model around the framework.
Aydid: And I think for me, it’s almost like we’ve got a little bit of an advantage. And my sister has worked in the NHS for years and actually is a midwife senior manager. So actually seeing the stressors and the pressures that they go through and how much effort, I’ve got friends and family that are doctors.
So seeing the amount of pressure that is on them. And obviously I’ve worked with the NHS now for years and, a lot of the clients. have become exceptional friends and you can’t let them down. So my priority is always making sure that we are providing the best level of care to the patients off the back of, the framework.[00:13:00]
Ketan: And that’s the whole objective, isn’t it? As an agency, so in terms of for new agencies, who are getting on the frameworks, what would be your advice? How should they get started? I know what are those first couple of steps that they must take to maximize these opportunities?
Aydid: Very good questions, actually. And I really hope that a lot of the new agencies do go out and do this because it’s one thing that I would love for everyone to do, because it not only makes them look good, but it would, become self fulfilling because it would make all the agencies look good.
And there’s a lot of agencies that are cowboy. When they’re sending people out, they haven’t, done the proper vetting, they haven’t done the proper checks. All of our candidates are clinically interviewed, making sure that they sound everything in line with the framework.
We get all the time. We’ve just recently been able to not long ago, actually. And we’ve always passed all of our audits. So I’d say all of the agencies work in line with the framework making sure that when you’re speaking to the hospitals, um, There is a culture of applying a bit of telecells where people just pick up the phone and go into the NHS almost as if they’re selling windows.
And by the way, No disrespect to anybody that is actually selling windows or anything like that at all, but it’s two different jobs. We’re pulling clinicians out to work that effectively are saving people’s lives. So there’s a different way you have to speak a different language. You have to show a lot of care, compassion when you speak into them and more than anything else, there has to be a lot of truth to what you’re saying.
And you have to be honest. So if you can provide, there’s a lot of times I’ll actually I’ll call and say, do you think you can get somebody over tonight? I could say yes. And then later on, actually get on and then not do the job, but I have to manage the expectation. So I would say manage expectation, do what you say you’re going to do and make sure that you’re sending people that are compliant and safe.
Ketan: That was my next point, in terms of maximizing these opportunities, one is, getting those jobs. Coming [00:15:00] in on a regular basis. And then two is, making sure that you treat compliance as it is, which is the cornerstone of the entire process, because, if you’re going to cut partners there you’re not going to have a sustainable business.
Aydid: Yeah. And I see a lot of agencies actually see compliance almost as the necessary evil, but it is really a pillar. It should, it has to be a key pillar of your business. Once you do that, the job becomes very simple. It becomes very easy. And your business will come scalable. Again, I consider a good business, a business that the clients want to continue doing business with a business that is considered to be safe and that passes his audits and more, and obviously from, the shareholders and everybody else’s is business that is profitable and that is scalable.
And I think if you aren’t getting the first part it will become very difficult for you to scale because your processes are not in line. Your processes will become very dependent on. Individuals, whereas actually our business, the way it’s set up, it’s process and [00:16:00] then people, cause the people are following the process.
So if you Put those things in place. You’d have a very, amazing business that can go on to grow year on year. And that’s what it has been here at DRC. It’s ironic. Actually a lot of people ask me, I’m not somebody that is really out there apart from with DNHS, but when I think back and I, you asking the questions and I see who we come up against a lot of the times, sometimes they might’ve had a time, a lot more money, a lot more resources, we have pretty much outgrown majority of them.
By just doing the basics, doing the fundamentals and being consistent.
Ketan: I think the way, especially when it comes to the healthcare staffing, industry as well, it tells the world is that jobs now or job loads are categorized into, or broken down into different categories.
Activities as well. Yes. I remember the days, back in probably before 10 years, but you used to have a 360 degree compliance officers. Now there are a lot of agencies who have broken that down and then, have teams, if it’s high volume who are just doing reference chasing the others who are just doing health documents, depending on the volume.
And then, same when it comes to the bookings and the sales process as well. But everything like you mentioned is around process. And then, people to make sure that those boxes are not just take, it’s followed as a second, that we have to make sure that we follow these steps to remain on the framework.
And deliver
Aydid: absolutely you’ve made me think back probably more than, 25 years ago. I remember when I had my first job or one of my first jobs actually and still played a big part in this job. I’m laughing cause I worked in McDonald’s when I was younger, and I was like, let me get a little bit of money.
Just want to be able to pay for my football boots, do A, B, C and D. And, it really paid off. For the job that I’m doing today, because the way when coming to DRC, the way I’d looked at it for the first time is I’ve been given a blank canvas, pen and paper, and I’m building a business, and I think not many people are aware before building this gigantic business.
Now, I don’t need. worked in medical recruitment for two years, but really all my previous experiences would actually got me to where I am now. And you can say, I took a little bit of the business model where, you know, the way I look at it is in McDonald’s, you’ve got somebody doing the till they are almost as you would class a subject matter expert.
Somebody is in the kitchen, working on the vegetarian side, making sure that they are doing that part. Somebody is actually making the buns, somebody is grilling the meat and that’s how I actually build. Our business here is actually creating small little stations and hubs where people have become really subject matter experts and a lot of the quality is being checked at every station.
Ketan: Absolutely, and I think it’s remains an important point, especially when you’re on the framework is that one jobs are not going to just start coming in. You need somebody to spend that time exclusively doing business development, conducting the outreach. And then you got the process of candidate generation and development.
Alongside compliance, whatever level of compliance, respective sector is required. So these are three things that, that every agency was getting on the framework must adhere to.
Aydid: And what the framework does for you also is not just, as I said, that just the license to do business, but it also gets you certain meetings that you might’ve not been given a chance.
Gives you preview to some information that you wouldn’t have had when certain hospitals decide that they’re going out for, because sometimes it’s all done locally because the NHS has now been broken up in ICSs and hubs. What that means is a lot of the hospitals are working. Collectively together, sharing intelligence, and of their back officers, making sure that they have an understanding of their hours that are going filled, the hours that are going unfilled, what the neighboring hospital is doing, what rates they’re working at.
And sometimes getting invited to some of those meetings opens your eyes and your ears to what the future could look like. You got to see that the table, but again, that doesn’t mean that you would always have that seat at the table as if it’s your dinner table. So you have to put in the work. And I think that’s the key thing of, being on framework and every couple of years, normally it’s, three years is usually two plus one, two years plus one year, it’ll go back out to market and then you’ll have to tender.
And in order to stay onto the framework, you have to have demonstrated. Your capability. There is a cap of hours that you have to supply in order to stay.
Ketan: And it’s not just the long shifts that you fill. No it’s a lot
Aydid: it’s a lot more volume that you have to do in order to stay on again.
It, I say a lot of volume, but the amount of business that we do it’s in order to stay onto the framework, we probably do that business in a week. But again, I think for somebody that is starting, I can see how it could be very challenging. But I would say the main thing is you have to be very passionate about working with the NHS.
And if you’re not passionate about [00:21:00] working with the NHS, then I think being on the framework is, at some point going to become pointless for you. You have to be passionate and you have to be consistent because if you can’t consistently provide good quality stuff to go back to the hospitals over and over again, and good communications from your team to the end user you’re going to have a very difficult time supplying the NHS and staying on the framework.
Ketan: Absolutely. And then, it’s not just about. Contacting the candidates, like you said it’s not a tele sales job where you call a nurse and, ask, are you available for the shift? There’s a lot of work that goes in, even, creating the trust with the candidates and then building that rapport as well, that, I want to work with this recruiter, this agency, and then they’ll be able to provide jobs in the region where I need.
Aydid: Yeah. And, they will develop the trust more and more once they realize that, you. can give them what they want. And I think that’s what people, that’s what people sometimes forget when they’re working in [00:22:00] recruitment is every relationship it’s there in as long as it’s useful.
Now, so you can not work with the candidates who are professional doctors and nurses, and then not do your end of the bargain, making sure that you give them the shifts that they want, You call them when that you or your team calls them, I always say you because the difference for me is I’ve done every part of the job.
I literally start when I started in medical recruitment. I started all the way, from the ground level, from, called calling the database, speaking to candidates all the way up to, now the director of the business. And yeah, I think if you deliver what you say you’re going to do with, Honestly, then, candidates would want to come and work with you and, really having a trusted, not only voice, but a trusted character.
Ketan: And then, it comes out especially with the communication to and fro in terms of responding to, responding to their calls making sure that you update them with their cancellations vis a vis, with the hospitals as well to make sure that they work with you because, if you aren’t going to tell them what’s the current situation with respective shifts the time sheets the payments there’s no way you’re going to build any trust whatsoever.
Aydid: And it’s no different than for you, working in the outsourcing space, your clients want exactly the same as what our clients want. And it’s the same in every field. Everybody wants the same, whether I’m, or if I’m ordering something, I’d go to Amazon or anywhere else is cause I know that the product will be, what is what I’ve ordered most of the time, it’ll come at the time that I expect it to come.
So it’s all comes down to delivery.
Ketan: Absolutely. You got to be purpose driven. That’s how I’d sum up. So in terms of summing this up getting on the framework is one thing you have to do the work to get the jobs in. That’s number one. Number two is, develop that database of candidates hand in hand, and then, who up on the level of compliance required for the respective sector you’re catering to.
Aydid: I’d say for new agencies, like you said, what would be the key thing to understand is first and foremost, understand your business. Understand the people that are working in your business. And once you get onto the framework, read the contract, because a lot of the people do not understand it’s just the basics, it’s almost if you buy a new TV and you’ve never had a TV before you read the manual, employ the right people, put the right processes in place and consistently do the good things.
So I always say, I know he’s saying, and For us and for the business, what actually makes us successful is we just keep doing the basics of what we’ve done right at the beginning, better and better day in, day out, year in, year out. So yeah, just don’t forget what got you to the dance.
Ketan: Work on your foundation and then build on it. From the, reading the agreement to, following your processes.
Aydid: And when you do well, your clients will become your friends. There is a lot of people that have worked in the NHS who are a lot older than me, and understand the NHS side a lot better than I did at that time.
And even to an extent, better than I do now. But we’ve built such a great synergy between our business model and the clients. You know what they would want and what is their desired outcome and understanding their goals, their mission statement, what do they want to do? That we’ve become such close friends to an extent, I’ve learned probably more from the guys who work in the NHS that I’ve learned from people that are working in the industry and they’ve become mentors, they’ve become coaches, they’ve become friends and some of them, you could also almost class them as family.
Ketan: And then that’s how you learn, isn’t it? Spend time, spend more time, in the industry with your clients. And then, it comes with your outreach. Yeah. Initially it’s still gonna be called but it’s up to you to put in the efforts and, build the rapport.
Aydid: Oh yeah, absolutely. And you do the same you do in-House as well. Internally. Make sure you employ the right managers, promote the right managers and again. The guys here, I couldn’t thank my team enough. They’ve done an unbelievable job. They always make me look good. So when we’re doing business, they follow the instructions and yeah we enjoy working together and year in, year out, we’ve all grown up together doing the job.
Ketan: Fantastic. Fantastic. So I did. Thank you very much for being on the show. Really enjoyed the conversation. And there’s a lot of things we could talk about, when it comes to frameworks, but that’s for some of the time, but really appreciate your time today.
Aydid: Yeah, no, thank you very much.
It’s been an absolute pleasure. Actually. Some of the questions make me think back a little bit further than I’d expected. So yeah, good job. Thank you. Thank you. Thanks.
